One typo in a post that large wasn't so bad.
True, and I didn't see that pesky "M" when I wrote my reply about the Z4, so we're even.
I went there, and I am still not excited. Most of the owners there have modified their cars, and most of them weren't reporting the high numbers you were. Better than the rated numbers? Sure, for some. Not for all, and who is to say that the ratings for the Lex, BMW, or MB aren't low as well?
k-mart wrote:MB doesn't exactly make a car that competes directly with the 'Vette, so I did the best I could. Its funny that you mention weight so often because an all-aluminum LS1 weighs less than the 2.4L I4 in my 240sx. Smaller doesn't always mean displacement. I'd also venture to say that the Benz motor contribute to its higher curb weight. We all also know what a heavy nose does to a RWD car, don't we? Peak torque may come in lower in the RPM range, but the real question is where in the RPM range torque begins to build. I'd be curious to see a dyno sheet of said motors. The Z06 hasn't had 385hp since '01 then from '02-'04 it got bumped up to 405hp. The BRAND NEW Z06 actually has 505hp from a 7.0L (gasp) motor with the same (smaller than MB) EXTERNAL dimensions as the 5.7L LS1 that is in my car.
I went off what I saw on the Edmunds page about the Z06, and the comparison between a 7L engine and a 3.5L engine seems even more ludicrous to me. BTW, for what it's worth, the new 4.6L from Lexus is all aluminum, too. As is the 5.5L from MB.
I'd venture to say that their weight is probably not what you think it is, but I cannot locate any comparisons nor specs about it. If you have more than an assumption to go on, I'm open to reviewing it. As you can see, I'm not picking on anyone, if the facts are there, they're there.
k-mart wrote:At least the IS350 is a sporting car. You're talking apples and oranges here, mack. But I'll bite. Gear the 'Vette as tall and give it 8-speeds and lets see what happens. And again, the new Z06 is 505hp. Quite a bit more than your Lexus and look at that, MPG ratings are quite close. Oh, and it will do a mid 11 1/4 mile and go 200mph. Crafty americans.
Gear it as tall? Give it an 8 speed? The IS350's final drive ratio is 3.727, which is not a huge difference in gearing. And it's a 6 speed (manual or sequential auto). The LS460's 8-speed gives it a final drive of 2.937, but the 8th gear is close to the Vette, at 0.685 vs. 0.56. They both still end up with 2 overdrive gears, but the Lexus initial gear is huge at 4.596. And keep in mind, the Lexus runs to 60 in less than 5.5 seconds, so it's pretty nimble for such a big car. Also keep in mind that the Lexus still weighs 1200 lbs MORE than the Z06, which is a HUGE advantage, or at least, it should
be. And remember as well, you're comparing a 7.0L vs. a 4.6L. Power per liter? Chevy: 72.14. Lexus: 82.61. Hmmm...crafty Americans or crafty Japanese? Jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.
k-mart wrote:That Lexus is nice, but it also costs $61k, is slower, surely handles worse, and at the rate Lexus's recalls are going will be in the shop quite a bit.
It's not a sports car, so it's not designed to plant your *** in the seat as much as the Vette is. Honestly, I've never been a fan of the Vettes because I don't like small cars (interior wise). I have driven a couple, and the ride is horrendous to me. But those are personal opinions, everyone has them. As for quality, however, surely you're not saying that Lexus has less than Chevy? Perhaps you've not seen the following:Please note that Lexus took the TOP dependability award for the 11th consecutive year.2004 shows Lexus with 162 defects versus Chevy with 262Please note who won the top premium sporty car segment, and who was the top again...12 years running
And also , please note how many Lexus' made the top ranking in 2004 and 2006, which would be 3. Chevy? 1.
2005? 3 to 3, but interestingly, the Vette wins none in the past 3 years.
And if you really want to dig deep on the numbers, why is it that Chevrolet's quality actually went DOWN from 2005 to 2006? The industry average improved by 10 full points, yet Chevy went from above the line at 232 to below it at 241. They seem to be moving in the wrong direction (as I've said many times).
Where did Lexus place? Oh, that's right -- at the top. Again. And their numbers went up from 139 to 136. That's 105 more problems in Chevy's than in Lexus'. Darn those Japanese for making a better product. Doesn't give them a right to charge more for it, though, right? Aren't you supposed to get filet mignon for the price of a chuck steak? And no, I'm not comparing a Vette to a chuck steak, just saying that you're actually getting
something for the price, they're not just charging more and not giving the customer any benefits.
So, you're telling me that you'd rather have a motor that's heavier, physically larger, more expensive to repair, and gets nearly identical mileage just because its where technology is headed?
I still don't get the displacement arguement when talking about a LSX motor. Its physically SMALLER than the majority of its smaller displacement competitors. I like lots of puddin in a small cup, not a little puddin in a huge cup. But that's just me.
I have no measurements of the size of the blocks for the 4.6L or the 7.0L, but if you can show me actual numbers, like I said, I'm open. I find it very hard to believe that an engine with 2.4 more liters if displacement wouldn't have a bigger footprint, especially given that both are aluminum alloy blocks. For me, however, I'm still not sold on the argument that displacement is all there is. And truthfully, I'd love to see what kind of mileage the Lexus motor would get if it were in a car that only weighed 3115 lbs. I would bet it would be a pretty significant gain, given that it's pushing almost 25% more weight and still achieving decent (let's be real, 19 in the city isn't making either of them gas sippers) mileage.
Oh, and as for puddin, I don't care about the size of the cup, I just like a lot of it, so we're on the same page there.
Probably part of why I don't fit into a Vette, but I digress...